Table of Contents
Obama's ABC News Interview Transcript on Missouri Protesters
George Stephanopoulos: When you were a student, you spoke out, you protested the apartheid in South Africa. If you were on the campus of the University of Missouri today, would you be a protester?
President Obama: Without knowing all the facts, I鈥檝e read enough to know that there is clearly a problem at the University of Missouri. And that鈥檚 not just coming from students; that鈥檚 coming from some faculty. And I think it is entirely appropriate for students in a thoughtful, peaceful way, to protest what they see as injustices or inattention to serious problems in their midst.
I want an activist student body just like I want an activist citizenry. And the issue is just making sure that, even as these young people are getting engaged, getting involved, speaking out, that they鈥檙e also listening. And, you know, I鈥檇 rather see them err on the side of activism than being passive. I think that what you saw with the University of Missouri football team and the coach standing up for something that they think is right harkens back to a powerful tradition that helped to bring about great change in this country. But I also want to make sure that they understand that being a good citizen, being an activist, involves hearing the other side鈥
George Stephanopoulos: That鈥檚 what I wanted to ask you about because鈥
President Obama: 鈥攁nd making sure that you are engaging in a dialogue because that鈥檚 also how change happens. The civil rights movement happened because there was civil disobedience, because people were willing to go to jail, because there were events like Bloody Sunday, but it was also because the leadership of the movement consistently stayed open to the possibility of reconciliation and sought to understand the views, even views that were appalling to them, of the other side.
George Stephanopoulos: 鈥機ause there does seem to be a strain on some of these campuses of a kind of militant political correctness, where you shut down the other side.
President Obama: And I disagree with that. And it鈥檚 interesting, you know; I鈥檝e now got daughters who鈥攐ne鈥檚 about to go to college. The other one鈥檚 going to be on her way in a few years. And then we talk about this at the dinner table. And I say to them, Listen, if you hear somebody using a racial epithet, if you hear somebody who鈥檚 anti-Semitic, if you see an injustice, I want you to speak out, and I want you to be firm and clear, and I want you to protect people who many not have voices themselves. I want you to be somebody who鈥檚 strong and sees themselves as somebody who鈥檚 looking out for the vulnerable.
But I tell them, I want you also to be able to listen. I don鈥檛 want you to think that a display of your strength is simply shutting other people up, and that part of your ability to bring about change is going to be by engagement and understanding the viewpoints and the arguments of the other side. And so when I hear, for example, folks on college campuses saying, 鈥淲e鈥檙e not going to allow somebody to speak on our campus鈥斺
George Stephanopoulos: 鈥淲e need a safe space.鈥
President Obama: 鈥溾攂ecause we disagree with their ideas or we feel threatened by their ideas,鈥 I think that鈥檚 a recipe for dogmatism and I think you鈥檙e not going to be as effective.
And so, look, I want to be clear here and it鈥檚 a tough issue, because there are two values that I care about. I care about civil rights and I care about kids not being discriminated against or having swastikas painted on their doors or nooses hung, thinking it鈥檚 a joke. I think it鈥檚 entirely appropriate for any institution, including universities to say, 鈥淒on鈥檛 walk around in blackface; it offends people. Don鈥檛 wear a headdress and beat your chest if Native American students have said, you know, this hurts us, this bothers us.鈥 There鈥檚 nothing wrong with that.
But we also have these values of free speech. And it鈥檚 not free speech in the abstract. The purpose of that kind of free speech is to make sure that we are forced to use argument and reason and words in making our democracy work. And, you know, you don鈥檛 have to be fearful of somebody spouting bad ideas. Just out-argue them. Beat 鈥檈m. Make the case as to why they鈥檙e wrong. Win over adherents. That鈥檚 how things work in a democracy.
And I do worry if young people start getting trained to think that if somebody says something I don鈥檛 like, if somebody says something that hurts my feelings, that my only recourse is to shut them up, avoid them, push them away, call on a higher power to protect me from that. You know, and yes, does that put more of a burden on minority students, or gay students, or Jewish students, or others in a majority that may be blind to history and blind to their hurt? It may put a slightly higher burden on them. But you鈥檙e not going to make the kinds of deep changes in society that those students want without taking it on in a full and clear and courageous way.
And, you know, I tell you, I trust Malia in an argument. If a knucklehead on a college campus starts talking about her, I guarantee you she will give as good as she gets.
George Stephanopoulos: It sounds like you鈥檝e been having some good dinner table conversations.